Why Catholics Don't Discuss Their Faith With "You"
On the Protestant homeschool forum I hang out on I often hear about Catholics who are just "going through the motions." Now I am not living with any kind of delusion that all Catholics have a deep and vibrant faith and there aren't those who are indeed "going through the motions" but there are some things that make "us" reticent to be open about our faith. My best friend who was a Southern Baptist before she became Catholic said to me once, "I never understood why we never talked about our faith. Now I get it." The following is the explanation I provided on the forum....
I can't crawl inside your life and know about the specific Catholics you are referring to that are going through the motions. Maybe they ARE going through the motions. It's certainly possible. But as someone on the "inside" there are some things I think should be taken into account. I am on our Church's RCIA (RCIA classes are the classes taken by those coming into the Catholic Church or my Catholics who just want to know more about their faith) team and I do hear from other Catholics on the Sonlight forums that avoid LLL like the plague. I often run across Catholics who freely and openly admit to me (because I am "safe") that they happily play dumb for any non-Catholic Christian/Protestant who asks them about their faith. Yep. You heard me right. They actively avoid talking about their faith with non-Catholic Christians/Protestants. So let me tell you a little bit about what I see from this side of the Tiber.
I am NOT saying that all non-Catholic Christians/Protestants are like this but I will tell you that in the vast majority of cases, the only reason I get questioned about my faith is so that the other person can cultivate the opportunity to fix it. I wish I could say that these sorts of things were uncommon but they aren't. At least half of those in my RCIA class have family who are apoplectic about their conversion. I see it all the time in the Spitfire Grill as well. Those who convert lose friends and family. They are subjected to email campaigns from church members and intrusive home visits demanding an "explanation." One member of the Spitfire Grill was told by her pastor that their joining the Catholic Church amounted to an unforgiveable sin and they would NEVER be able to repent. I live in an area that was severely affected by a recent natural disaster. We took in many refugees from the hardest hit areas in our area. Our church does not have the facilities to actually provide shelter (by law....we'd be willing to try and make it work but the Federal government won't allow it). So instead of providing shelter, our church worked to provide supplies to other shelters. Our church took a pick-up load of supplies to a local church (not a small one) for them to distribute. The people that were about to unload the supplies asked where they came from. When they discovered they were from the local Catholic Church, they refused to take them. This church also refused to allow a Catholic clergyman from our parish to minister to those sheltering in their church....even though given the demographics of the population it is likely that there were Catholics in there. On this very thread we heard how a family member got angry and said that the Catholic Church didn't believe in the resurrection. My children have been told that they worship candles. Many homeschool groups are closed to Catholics. And then there are oodles of websites and organizations dedicated to saving Catholics from eternal damnation. (Google "Whore of Babylon" and see what comes up.) Time and again when I am teaching in RCIA, I hear from the students "You should hear what my [relative] says about THAT! She/he thinks I am going to hell and told me so too."
I wish I could say that these were isolated incidents but they are not. I've had things like this said to my face and behind my back. My children are openly viewed as a mission field by their non-Catholic/Protestant friends. I hear it from those converting to the Catholic Church across the country. Ask at your local homeschooling convention if they allow Catholic speakers or vendors. Ask for a Catholic book at many Christian bookstores. I've seen what has been said to high-profile converts such as Beckwith, Cathy Duffy, and the Donut Man. This is what Catholics hear from non-Catholic Christians/Protestants all of the time. Of course, it's not ALL of the time but it's often enough so that when most Catholic are questioned about their faith they see the questioner like this
and feel like this:
Of course some of us are just wearing feathers, doing our best bird impression, and chanting "Here kitty, kitty...."
but I digress....
Now besides feeling like the conversation is nothing but a set-up for converting you from the clutches of Rome, there is the sheer magnitude of what you've got to know to be ready for even the most basic challenges to your faith.
Consider what the implications are for unity in the Catholic Church. When was the last time you had to answer for the Salem Witch Trials? Probably never or certainly not regularly. After all, that was THEM and not your church. But when you are Catholic and you are ONE with those who came before you, you are answerable for the Crusades, and the Inquisition, and selling indulgences. Think about this, all the questioner has to do is come up with a few facts (often wrong) about these events and then sit back and say "well what about that? What about the Crusades...huh?"
How are YOU on Crusade history? Good enough to spot erroneous information? Can you name them all? Put them in historical context? Sort the good from the bad? Provide proof? On the spur of the moment? Can you do that for the Inquisition? The Reformation in Europe? In England? Offer support or context for the accusations made against the Church in South America? Galileo? The task is really quite daunting and the burden of proof is always placed on the Catholic.
Then there are those who go to website like this pick up a few quotes from encyclicals that they've never read and demand that we defend them. When was the last time you were called to account for a letter your pastor wrote 25 years ago? How about 250 years ago? Do you have all those letters? Read them all? Can you place them all in historical context? Can you explain the purpose for them being written? What was it in response to? Can you explain the changes in language and practice that relate to appropriately interpreting the meaning of those letters?
Or they learn what the Catholic Church teaches from websites like this and then the Catholic must first correct the incorrect statements of Catholic belief or complete those that are partially stated with official church documents. Only to have the questioner walk away and declare that they talked to a Catholic for [x] length of time and they never used the BIBLE! Maybe they'll even say it to our face. If they say to us that their church strives to be just like the Church of Acts, and we say but we have writings from the early church and they would disagree here, here, and here then we get the same accusation.
Then there is the questioner who has spent the entire conversation hammering away at the "You worship statues and dead people/Mary worship" lines, only to walk away and announce that Catholics never talk about their relationship with Jesus!!
When the Pope fails to stop people in the Philppines from crucifying themselves, he is not strict enough. But let them declare that marriage is permanent and that remarried Catholics must abstain from Eucharist and he is outrageously out of line.
As a Catholic, you end up defending every crazy thing that someone's aunt's cousin's priest said or did. You get to defend your faith from accusations made by people who say they were a priest (or nun or whatever) but were not. If you use the Catechism to show that the priest was wrong or out-of-line, then you get accused of not using the Bible. If you manage to balance the Bible and the Catechism sufficiently to make your point; then, you are the exceptional Catholic and they still believe all of the rest of them are wrong or "going through the motions."
Now please let me be clear, I am NOT offended by the questions you've asked. I believe that if I am going to claim a different sort of unity exists in the Catholic faith, then I am going to have to take the good with the bad. That means I get to talk about the Inquisition and the Crusades....although I am not particularly knowledgable about either. I believe that if I am going to claim that Jesus is really and truly present in the Eucharist and that it makes a difference, my non-Catholic Christian/Protestant brothers and sisters in faith can justifiably hold me to a higher standard. If I am going to claim papal infallibiblity, then by golly I am going to have to answer for 500 year old encyclicals so that means I need to own them and read them. And the Dogmatic Constitutions, and their source documents, and the early church fathers etc.
I am only trying to illustrate that:
1. Catholics by and large have learned that Protestants/non-Catholic Christians want to hear about our faith for only one reason. It happens often enough that you enter such conversations with a great deal of caution.
2. Once you engage in the conversation, you can find yourself in WAY over your head even if you know the FAITH....simply because so many other issues are regularly the topic of conversation. And if you answer one question, the questioner immediately moves to the next accusation.
And that's why you may find that even the devoutly practicing Catholics that you know may be reluctant to open up about Jesus. If you want to hear what they really think, I would suggest asking in such a way that demonstrates good faith. (Not saying that you wouldn't be asking in good faith otherwise....only that it might be necessary to break through some previous bad experiences) If you want to hear about their relationship with Jesus, ask if you can go with them to Mass. Take them out to eat afterwards and ask them about the symbolism. Why did they do this? What did that mean? They may not be able to answer it all, but I suspect they they will be more open about their faith under such circumstances.
I can't crawl inside your life and know about the specific Catholics you are referring to that are going through the motions. Maybe they ARE going through the motions. It's certainly possible. But as someone on the "inside" there are some things I think should be taken into account. I am on our Church's RCIA (RCIA classes are the classes taken by those coming into the Catholic Church or my Catholics who just want to know more about their faith) team and I do hear from other Catholics on the Sonlight forums that avoid LLL like the plague. I often run across Catholics who freely and openly admit to me (because I am "safe") that they happily play dumb for any non-Catholic Christian/Protestant who asks them about their faith. Yep. You heard me right. They actively avoid talking about their faith with non-Catholic Christians/Protestants. So let me tell you a little bit about what I see from this side of the Tiber.
I am NOT saying that all non-Catholic Christians/Protestants are like this but I will tell you that in the vast majority of cases, the only reason I get questioned about my faith is so that the other person can cultivate the opportunity to fix it. I wish I could say that these sorts of things were uncommon but they aren't. At least half of those in my RCIA class have family who are apoplectic about their conversion. I see it all the time in the Spitfire Grill as well. Those who convert lose friends and family. They are subjected to email campaigns from church members and intrusive home visits demanding an "explanation." One member of the Spitfire Grill was told by her pastor that their joining the Catholic Church amounted to an unforgiveable sin and they would NEVER be able to repent. I live in an area that was severely affected by a recent natural disaster. We took in many refugees from the hardest hit areas in our area. Our church does not have the facilities to actually provide shelter (by law....we'd be willing to try and make it work but the Federal government won't allow it). So instead of providing shelter, our church worked to provide supplies to other shelters. Our church took a pick-up load of supplies to a local church (not a small one) for them to distribute. The people that were about to unload the supplies asked where they came from. When they discovered they were from the local Catholic Church, they refused to take them. This church also refused to allow a Catholic clergyman from our parish to minister to those sheltering in their church....even though given the demographics of the population it is likely that there were Catholics in there. On this very thread we heard how a family member got angry and said that the Catholic Church didn't believe in the resurrection. My children have been told that they worship candles. Many homeschool groups are closed to Catholics. And then there are oodles of websites and organizations dedicated to saving Catholics from eternal damnation. (Google "Whore of Babylon" and see what comes up.) Time and again when I am teaching in RCIA, I hear from the students "You should hear what my [relative] says about THAT! She/he thinks I am going to hell and told me so too."
I wish I could say that these were isolated incidents but they are not. I've had things like this said to my face and behind my back. My children are openly viewed as a mission field by their non-Catholic/Protestant friends. I hear it from those converting to the Catholic Church across the country. Ask at your local homeschooling convention if they allow Catholic speakers or vendors. Ask for a Catholic book at many Christian bookstores. I've seen what has been said to high-profile converts such as Beckwith, Cathy Duffy, and the Donut Man. This is what Catholics hear from non-Catholic Christians/Protestants all of the time. Of course, it's not ALL of the time but it's often enough so that when most Catholic are questioned about their faith they see the questioner like this
and feel like this:
Of course some of us are just wearing feathers, doing our best bird impression, and chanting "Here kitty, kitty...."
but I digress....Now besides feeling like the conversation is nothing but a set-up for converting you from the clutches of Rome, there is the sheer magnitude of what you've got to know to be ready for even the most basic challenges to your faith.
Consider what the implications are for unity in the Catholic Church. When was the last time you had to answer for the Salem Witch Trials? Probably never or certainly not regularly. After all, that was THEM and not your church. But when you are Catholic and you are ONE with those who came before you, you are answerable for the Crusades, and the Inquisition, and selling indulgences. Think about this, all the questioner has to do is come up with a few facts (often wrong) about these events and then sit back and say "well what about that? What about the Crusades...huh?"
How are YOU on Crusade history? Good enough to spot erroneous information? Can you name them all? Put them in historical context? Sort the good from the bad? Provide proof? On the spur of the moment? Can you do that for the Inquisition? The Reformation in Europe? In England? Offer support or context for the accusations made against the Church in South America? Galileo? The task is really quite daunting and the burden of proof is always placed on the Catholic.
Then there are those who go to website like this pick up a few quotes from encyclicals that they've never read and demand that we defend them. When was the last time you were called to account for a letter your pastor wrote 25 years ago? How about 250 years ago? Do you have all those letters? Read them all? Can you place them all in historical context? Can you explain the purpose for them being written? What was it in response to? Can you explain the changes in language and practice that relate to appropriately interpreting the meaning of those letters?
Or they learn what the Catholic Church teaches from websites like this and then the Catholic must first correct the incorrect statements of Catholic belief or complete those that are partially stated with official church documents. Only to have the questioner walk away and declare that they talked to a Catholic for [x] length of time and they never used the BIBLE! Maybe they'll even say it to our face. If they say to us that their church strives to be just like the Church of Acts, and we say but we have writings from the early church and they would disagree here, here, and here then we get the same accusation.
Then there is the questioner who has spent the entire conversation hammering away at the "You worship statues and dead people/Mary worship" lines, only to walk away and announce that Catholics never talk about their relationship with Jesus!!
When the Pope fails to stop people in the Philppines from crucifying themselves, he is not strict enough. But let them declare that marriage is permanent and that remarried Catholics must abstain from Eucharist and he is outrageously out of line.
As a Catholic, you end up defending every crazy thing that someone's aunt's cousin's priest said or did. You get to defend your faith from accusations made by people who say they were a priest (or nun or whatever) but were not. If you use the Catechism to show that the priest was wrong or out-of-line, then you get accused of not using the Bible. If you manage to balance the Bible and the Catechism sufficiently to make your point; then, you are the exceptional Catholic and they still believe all of the rest of them are wrong or "going through the motions."
Now please let me be clear, I am NOT offended by the questions you've asked. I believe that if I am going to claim a different sort of unity exists in the Catholic faith, then I am going to have to take the good with the bad. That means I get to talk about the Inquisition and the Crusades....although I am not particularly knowledgable about either. I believe that if I am going to claim that Jesus is really and truly present in the Eucharist and that it makes a difference, my non-Catholic Christian/Protestant brothers and sisters in faith can justifiably hold me to a higher standard. If I am going to claim papal infallibiblity, then by golly I am going to have to answer for 500 year old encyclicals so that means I need to own them and read them. And the Dogmatic Constitutions, and their source documents, and the early church fathers etc.
I am only trying to illustrate that:
1. Catholics by and large have learned that Protestants/non-Catholic Christians want to hear about our faith for only one reason. It happens often enough that you enter such conversations with a great deal of caution.
2. Once you engage in the conversation, you can find yourself in WAY over your head even if you know the FAITH....simply because so many other issues are regularly the topic of conversation. And if you answer one question, the questioner immediately moves to the next accusation.
And that's why you may find that even the devoutly practicing Catholics that you know may be reluctant to open up about Jesus. If you want to hear what they really think, I would suggest asking in such a way that demonstrates good faith. (Not saying that you wouldn't be asking in good faith otherwise....only that it might be necessary to break through some previous bad experiences) If you want to hear about their relationship with Jesus, ask if you can go with them to Mass. Take them out to eat afterwards and ask them about the symbolism. Why did they do this? What did that mean? They may not be able to answer it all, but I suspect they they will be more open about their faith under such circumstances.
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And the having-to-answer-for-the-crusades-and-every-bad-pope-EVER thing gets old fast, too. (Comment this)
Then when I became a Non-denom type of Christian nobody ever asked me "what is the origin of Premillenial Dispensationalism-facts? dates? names?" or "Did you realize that Cyrus Scofield was forced to resign from his employment as an attorney for the district of Kansas because of questionable financial transactions and shortly thereafter was jailed on forgery charges! AND YOU ARE TOTIN' AND QUOTIN' FROM HIS STUDY BIBLE! oh my!"
As a Catholic I feel as if I need to memorize all the encyclicals and councils and catechism AND be able to quote scripture with ease to all who are "just wondering about your beliefs" [wink, wink]
Thanks for writing this! I can so relate!
~Brenda (Comment this)
The ones I have the most trouble with are former Catholics who endured all the changes of Vatican II without decent catechesis to make sense of it. It's hard for them to see anything but manmade ritual, and I can understand why. (Comment this)
I really don't understand why this is the case. I thought joining the Catholic church would be just like switching denominations, like I did when I joined the Episcopal church (and no one said anything about that). I think a lot of Protestants just ignore every Christian writing before Luther, and therefore don't really understand their roots. Before the Protestant Reformation, everyone was a Catholic Christian, with the exception of the Eastern rite. If anything, we should be chastising them for being rebels! (And because you can't always tell on the Internet, this is a joke.)
Thank you so much for writing this!
-Jennifer (Comment this)
Thanks for this post. :) (Comment this)
He joined RCIA a year or so later and is a very devout Catholic. It wasn't due to my unbrilliant response to one of THOSE questions that did it, for sure. Sometimes the best answers we can give involve joyfully living our faith.
Great post! (Comment this)